<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1533</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/19/99 9:42:03 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, December 20 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1533<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
the north american union<BR>
RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
Re : Human Evolution (was : ethnic confusion)<BR>
YATB (yet another TML bio)<BR>
Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
Re: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
Re: US Constitution [OT]<BR>
SHADO<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1521<BR>
Why you need streetwise...<BR>
Re: AGREED!! Gun Control - KNOCK IT OFF!<BR>
Re: WARNING:  Punning in Progress (Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions <BR>
Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
Re: [OT} Mental Health in Australia<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
SF Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:36:25 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: the north american union<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com> puts forth into the ether:<BR>
 >It has been written:<BR>
 >>>Actually, how the Union occurs is unstated as it's<BR>
 >not the focus of the<BR>
 >game.  However, i figure the Canadians got so sick of<BR>
 >hearing us Yanks<BR>
 >bellyache about how awful our Presidents are that they<BR>
 >offered us aUnion.>><BR>
 >I refer people to my earlier posts mentioning the<BR>
 >eventual liberation of the americas by the British<BR>
 >Commonwealth. THAT is how the Union occurs:)<BR>
 >Remember the War of 1812? The USA _lost_. It will<BR>
 >again!<BR>
<BR>
    The Museum at West Point disagrees, or at least they put a better spin <BR>
on it.<BR>
The section on the War of 1812 starts off, "At best, this war could be <BR>
called a draw."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>
- ----<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled<BR>
off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential<BR>
campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the<BR>
public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are <BR>
remitted<BR>
by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:38:50 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Amid the rant, Danny said:<BR>
>The US does *not* need one system, for anything below the federal level.  We<BR>
>are, supposedly,  a union of states - not one overbearing federal state.<BR>
<BR>
Thus proving you are a _confederation_, despite what Yankees may believe.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Danny, the way I read David Pulver's posting seems a little different from<BR>
how you read it. To me, he just said that the only way to have effective<BR>
gun-control is to follow the course he outlined.<BR>
<BR>
He didn't say he believed this was a good idea.<BR>
<BR>
The main point I believe he was saying is this: if someone advocates gun-control<BR>
without wanting to implement the far-reaching consequences, ignore them - they<BR>
are not really serious, just trying to pull in some votes!<BR>
<BR>
Then again, that's politicians for you ("You can always tell when they're lying<BR>
- - their lips move" - obscure Max Headroom quote).<BR>
<BR>
Rupert said:<BR>
>The next day our Prime<BR>
>Minister got on the Telly and told the nation how MSSAs were evil and<BR>
>should be banned. Ain't gun control wonderful?<BR>
<BR>
Case in point.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:40:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
<BR>
If you want a GREAT mercenary book read "The Dogs Of War" by Fredrick<BR>
Forsythe. The movie wasn't even close to the book so, if you saw that and<BR>
didn't read the book you missed loads. I say again, a GREAT book.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <tim@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 9:12 PM<BR>
Subject: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hey<BR>
><BR>
> I have just finished watching the movie 'Wild Geese", a mercenary<BR>
> movie set in late 60 early 70's Africa.  Has anyone done or heard of<BR>
> a Traveller adventure based on this movie.  I think it would make for<BR>
> a great  mercenary ticket adventure.  Any thoughts?<BR>
><BR>
> I think another good mercenary story is a book called the Crystal<BR>
> Mountain, does anybody know if this is the right name, because I<BR>
> would like to read it again.<BR>
> Tim Reynolds<BR>
> tim@premier.net<BR>
> 225-334-5063<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> Getting an education was a bit like a communicable<BR>
> sexual disease.  It made you unsuitable for<BR>
> a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.<BR>
><BR>
> Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:43:42 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re : Human Evolution (was : ethnic confusion)<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad I was not caught up in the midst of last week's silly season,<BR>
having read over the accumulated digests. That was a real dip in the<BR>
signal:noise ratio!<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to welcome Richard Martin to the list. A bona fide<BR>
anthropologist is a welcome resource.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the current opinion in human evolution (H.R-M's response<BR>
notwithstanding).<BR>
<BR>
> If they can take a<BR>
> canine breed to sentience then what is a little tweeking on the Homo<BR>
> line?? Who knows, maybe they tweaked 300,000 years ago and produced the<BR>
> first Homo sapiens for both this world and export!<BR>
<BR>
We're (the Solomani) a control group ; the others were tweaked in<BR>
various ways - the Zhodani for psionic potential, the Vilani for<BR>
longevity, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:54:28 EST<BR>
From: "Andrew Long" <andrewlong@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: YATB (yet another TML bio)<BR>
<BR>
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
Hash: SHA1<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
Just took a look at the mailing list addresses on your site, and my<BR>
expectations were fulfilled - there's no-one on it within a couple of<BR>
thousand miles of me. At the moment I'm working in the Arabian Gulf,<BR>
which tends to be a bit dry of  both Gamers and Science Fiction fans<BR>
(or at least, they keep quiet about it - remember what Heinlein said<BR>
about writing?)<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, I'll step up to the bat and see if it prompts anyone else in<BR>
the area to do so. I'm posting this bio to the TML as well.<BR>
<BR>
Andy Long<BR>
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates<BR>
andrewlong@hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
My name is Andrew, but from childhood (so many years ago), I've been<BR>
called Andy. I'm trying to change that, but in a fairly half-hearted<BR>
way. It doesn't seem to have much effect on people who've known you<BR>
for half of your life.<BR>
<BR>
I'm forty(mumble), single, born British and was naturalised<BR>
Australian in 1989, when I was working in Brisbane. I've worked in<BR>
Abu Dhabi for 14 of the past twenty years (four of the missing five<BR>
were spent in Oz), and I've just left Sydney to come back here to<BR>
find work.<BR>
<BR>
Systems I've played (besides Traveller, that is):- Call of Cthulhu,<BR>
AD&D (1st edition), Runequest (2nd edition? not the AH version,<BR>
anyway), Twilight 2000, Paranoia, Pendragon. Systems that I've owned<BR>
even if I haven't played them:- 2300AD, FASA  Star Trek, Chivalry and<BR>
Sorcery, Rolemaster, James Bond - the list goes on, and I've dumped<BR>
some of them in packing my stuff to ship it to the UK.<BR>
<BR>
I've been a very intermittent gamer, having spent those 14 years<BR>
working here in Abu Dhabi, but I've always been a Traveller player at<BR>
heart. These days all I get to do is roll up players and worlds, and<BR>
design ships and stuff, although there's nothing in my portfolio as<BR>
inspirational as some of the stuff I've been seeing on the list. I'm<BR>
more of a collector than a gamer, I suppose.<BR>
<BR>
My favourite system is MT (yes, I know why it's called Megatypo),<BR>
although I've always mixed in bits from other systems as I felt they<BR>
fitted. At one point I was using bits of the old SPI 'Universe'<BR>
system to add detail to world generation, and my most recent project<BR>
was trying to merge the World Builders handbook, the World Tamers<BR>
handbook and the 2300AD world generation system. However, that came<BR>
to a grinding halt when I uprooted myself from Australia 7 weeks ago<BR>
and returned to the middle east. All my stuff is in transit to the<BR>
UK, and all I brought with me was the players & referees books and<BR>
the WBH.<BR>
<BR>
I thought the rebellion setting was... interesting, and I liked the<BR>
'everything is a task' approach that it brought in. I thought that<BR>
TNE might be a better version of that system, but haven't really had<BR>
a chance to find out - and the setting turned me off at first.<BR>
Looking back at the last episodes of it, there was a chance to bring<BR>
virus-pcs into the game, which would have been interesting, if a bit<BR>
overpowering, but the early dungeon-crawls for loot just turned me<BR>
right off. Unfortunately, I had even less chance to play T4, although<BR>
I managed to collect most of the books.<BR>
<BR>
I await the T5 system, although at this point my expectations are<BR>
low. At this point my preferred option is to use the MT system and<BR>
the GT setting. With the capture of Dulinor (you do all know that he<BR>
isn't REALLY dead, don't you?),  there's still a chance of large<BR>
scale conflict breaking out, but not on the<BR>
end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scale of the Rebellion. AI's are just<BR>
about ready to enter canon (that research station where the<BR>
transponder research is being carried out seems like a pretty good<BR>
candidate for an Amnesty Interstellar investigation, to me), which<BR>
will really shake things up, and we've got Varian out there ready to<BR>
stir up trouble in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's me.<BR>
<BR>
I now return you to your scheduled flame war.<BR>
<BR>
regards, Andy^hrew<BR>
<BR>
- - --------------------------------------------------<BR>
Andrew Long		andrewlong@hotmail.com OR<BR>
c/o ICL		andrew.long@icl.com OR<BR>
PO Box 7237		andylong@bigpond.com<BR>
Abu Dhabi<BR>
UAE			+971 (50) 684 5817<BR>
- - --------------------------------------------------<BR>
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______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:54:53 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
<BR>
tim@premier.net puts out on the Ether:<BR>
 >I have just finished watching the movie 'Wild Geese", a mercenary<BR>
 >movie set in late 60 early 70's Africa.  Has anyone done or heard of<BR>
 >a Traveller adventure based on this movie.  I think it would make for<BR>
 >a great  mercenary ticket adventure.  Any thoughts?<BR>
<BR>
Great flick.  This was run as a Merc:2000 adventure years ago at the<BR>
Total Confusion con in Worcester, MA  (I got to play Richard Burton's<BR>
character).<BR>
<BR>
Since I was the only one who had seen the movie, besides the GM,<BR>
I had to act surprised at certain plot points.<BR>
<BR>
It was a lot of fun.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free<BR>
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:01:14 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Geese, a mercenary ticket<BR>
<BR>
tim@premier.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey<BR>
> <BR>
> I have just finished watching the movie 'Wild Geese", a mercenary<BR>
> movie set in late 60 early 70's Africa.  Has anyone done or heard of<BR>
> a Traveller adventure based on this movie.  I think it would make for<BR>
> a great  mercenary ticket adventure.  Any thoughts?<BR>
<BR>
Of course, you would _have_ to use "Roland, the Headless Thompson<BR>
Gunner" as background music at some point in the scenario.<BR>
<BR>
(On the subject of Warren Zevon and mercenary activities, there's also<BR>
"Lawyers, Guns, and Money", and ISTR that the title of "Werewolves of<BR>
London" is derived from the name of a bar/mercenary hiring hall.)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:03:37 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: US Constitution [OT]<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>OBTrav: Does the Imperial government ever run into this sort of<BR>
>problem. Cases where no matter *how* you interpret the law, large<BR>
>population segments on a planet will be upset to the point of riot or<BR>
>revolt?<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure they have.  This is what the Imperial Navy and Imperial Marines <BR>
are for.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free<BR>
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:04:20 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: SHADO<BR>
<BR>
A UFO series homepage<BR>
<BR>
http://ufo.simplenet.com/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
      Charles Schumer - Sarah Brady's Congressional meat puppet<BR>
                  http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:44:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1521<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 18/12/99, Garry Ward said :<BR>
><BR>
> <Garry><BR>
> 20 years a systems programmer for MVS, VM & VSE: I can do so many differnet<BR>
> things at once it scares the &^%&^ out of my wife.<BR>
> </Garry><BR>
><BR>
> Aha !  So it's all YOUR fault !  Guards ?  Take that man away !<BR>
><BR>
> Now, who's to blame for UNIX then ??<BR>
<BR>
Those men with the sharp knives?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:06:29 -0500<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: Why you need streetwise...<BR>
<BR>
  "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net> puts forth into the ether:<BR>
>Of course, a few<BR>
>thousand illegal handguns still leak into Japan each year...<BR>
<BR>
Well, so much for<BR>
"a country-wide set of restrictions, eliminate<BR>
all "grandfather clauses" allowing resale of existing weapons et al (use<BR>
buy-backs if necessary), enforce drug law level penalties for<BR>
non-complience (mandatory sentencing, like there is for crack cocaine)"<BR>
<BR>
Which is pretty much the case in Japan.<BR>
<BR>
And please leave the absurd handguns=nukes argument alone, or take to t.p.g <BR>
to hear a few dozen reasons why it's absurd.<BR>
<BR>
This is why Traveller PC's need that streetwise skill.  Even on high law <BR>
level planets, dangerous weapons are smuggled in or made for those who care <BR>
little about the law and are willing to pay.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone put their players in a "Enter the Dragon" type situation?  i.e. <BR>
No firearms, no lasers.<BR>
Strict hand-to-hand and limited melee weapons?<BR>
<BR>
hmmm...I guess most bar fights count.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he<BR>
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to<BR>
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"<BR>
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore<BR>
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the<BR>
Tiananmen massacre<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:03:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: AGREED!! Gun Control - KNOCK IT OFF!<BR>
<BR>
> I agree.  We should end the annual 2nd Amendment flame-fest.  I can't<BR>
> imagine how boring (or annoying :) it must be for those of us not in the<BR>
> CONUS (CONtinental United States).<BR>
<BR>
The abbreviation CON US seems so appropriate somehow...<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie <BR>
goes to Collingwood <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:10:08 -0600<BR>
From: Robert Daniel <bdaniel@T-Three.com><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING:  Punning in Progress (Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
I couldn't resist one more.<BR>
<BR>
I'm no sure what induced me to go on.<BR>
<BR>
This has transformed me in to a lunatic..<BR>
<BR>
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:30 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>         Go ohm with the puns already....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >So, watt exactly are you trying to tell me?<BR>
> ><BR>
>         Simply that y'all exceding my capacitance for this sort of thing.<BR>
> These puns is beginning to hertz us...<BR>
><BR>
>         --Michel<BR>
><BR>
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
>         Michel R. Vaillancourt  misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
>                                 ICQ # 31172292<BR>
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
>             NET-City Communications....<BR>
>                  Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
>         ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
>         -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:50:03 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 4:23 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
> <snip><BR>
> > Happy Holidays, (or whatever you choose to celebrate,)<BR>
><BR>
> As  a  Christian  I  celebrate   the   *Christian*   holiday   of<BR>
> *Christmas*, and send best wishes to all (Christian  or  not)  at<BR>
> this time.  (Okay, I admit  I  tend  to  celebrate  it  with  the<BR>
> standard fusion of Christian and Pagan traditions.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I most definately prefer the more correct Pagan version, but that's me.<BR>
<BR>
> Merry *Christmas*<BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
><BR>
> (Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
> spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
> ... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I may be cynical here (my reason for looking at Christmas as a stolen<BR>
festival now days and not a Christian one), but I think that Tokyo store may<BR>
have it right.  Santa, not some supposed saviour being the symbol of<BR>
Christmas, being nailed to the religious icon of the cross, all to generate<BR>
HUGE profits from the rich and the poor equally, into the coffers of the<BR>
manufacturers and/or retailers (Currently in Australia, the price of a<BR>
common $10 toy varies in stores from $20 to $120 depending upon it's<BR>
popularity... I offer you the spirit of Christmas, it's not the thought that<BR>
counts, it's the cost).<BR>
<BR>
Sorry folks, just a father of 4 venting on something that is vastly<BR>
different in my youth than it is now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:45:17 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 8:28 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 17 Dec 99, at 15:55, David L. Pulver wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > You want gun control, enforce a country-wide set of restrictions,<BR>
> > eliminate all "grandfather clauses" allowing resale of existing weapons<BR>
et<BR>
> > al (use buy-backs if necessary), enforce drug law level penalties for<BR>
> > non-complience (mandatory sentencing, like there is for crack cocaine)<BR>
and<BR>
> > offer $5,000 buy-back on any firearm not covered by the licensing. Cost<BR>
> > you a few billion dollars, but if you've the stones for it...<BR>
><BR>
> One problem - if Australia's experience is any guide buy-backs don't<BR>
> work.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Except that in many cases, in the words of a copper friend of mine, "...when<BR>
we discover someone in possession of a nug (a M*A*S*H term for "gun" adopted<BR>
by my friends) that shouldn't have a nug , we know he's a scumbag<BR>
(criminal)..."  Many more successful prosecutions have resulted by finding a<BR>
rifle in the boot of a car for example, of someone that doesn't need one,<BR>
and further investigation had shown shady goings on.  It can make the black<BR>
and white of it seem less grey.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:55:47 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 9:53 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >Arm Everybody. The Good Guys outnumber the Bad Guys.<BR>
> >        - seen recently on a bumper sticker<BR>
> >Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
>     Kinda like "Save the Unicorn", Good guys/Bad guys is the same order of<BR>
> myth<BR>
>     Jim L.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Like "Save the Whales; Collect the set" bumper sticker... hang-on... that's<BR>
got nothing to do with nugs?  It's been a lonnnnnnnnnnng weekend...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:34:24 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 2:07 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Interesting ... never heard this one. Any reason it hasn't been<BR>
> corrected in any of the umpteen updated and redone translations since<BR>
> KJ? My copy of the NRSV still has it steal/covet ...<BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav ... what if the first translation of the Warrant of<BR>
> Restoration into planet A's native language was mistranslated ... and<BR>
> the Imperium liked the mistranslation better, so they never corrected<BR>
> it. How would planet A react when they discover they're getting<BR>
> screwed (more than other worlds)?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Also, in my old campaign, I had for colour, old Solomani novels by Wilber<BR>
Smith are believed to be military history while James Bond was obviously a<BR>
real man!  I also created 5 non-Solomani early history novelist as writing<BR>
fiction, but taken as fact.  Is this not a similar thing?  Names and dates<BR>
gel so the PC's were sometimes stumped by "history" that couldn't possibly<BR>
have happened... could it?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:23:41 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT} Mental Health in Australia<BR>
<BR>
On 12/20/99 at 01:37 PM,  dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au said:<BR>
<BR>
>The mental health cutbacks was a sensible idea gone mad.<BR>
<BR>
>About 10 years ago, the Richmond Report stated that many people in<BR>
>psycaratric care could have been better treated in a community enviroment<BR>
>instead of being withheld from the community (take 3 of the older Psyc<BR>
>hospitals in Sydney, Gladesville, Parramatta (Cumberland) and Peat Island<BR>
>could have been used as prisons, walls included).<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, we call it "mainstreaming" in a slightly different context. People<BR>
with special problems shouldn't be isolated from the community, and it is<BR>
more cost effective to place them with the rest of the public providing<BR>
care only as needed.  The concept is sound, but the implementation is<BR>
often less so.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav:  Reform is what a certain Duke had in mind, not the<BR>
destruction of the Imperium.  Things didn't move as fast as he wanted.  He<BR>
was sure that *he* could do better, and so the rest is history...in one<BR>
timeline. <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:42:04 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
ROFLOL!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 3:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Well I'm betting the Vargr have a cubicle with a trough and a fire hydrant<BR>
> in it.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:38:36 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
...<BR>
>What is a 'buy-back'?  How can the gov't 'buy-back' something it never<BR>
>owned?  If  you don't choose to 'sell' it to the government, you are put in<BR>
>jail.  This is also known as confiscation.<BR>
<BR>
  "Confiscation" or variants on it (ooh, _taxation_!) is a favourite of<BR>
governments. It's also a big thrill for criminals, so you don't have too<BR>
much to choose between :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:39:22 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
...<BR>
>On 12/18/1999 00:54, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> That's funny, I didn't think that Canada had socialized medicine. On the<BR>
>> other hand, having seen the economic hardship that prolonged sickness can,<BR>
>> and more often than not, does bring onto families, I'm far from convinced<BR>
>> that "capitalized medicine" is all that much better.<BR>
>> <BR>
>And Canada's single-payer system is what all the media wants us to look<BR>
>toward for a "better health care system, just like Bill and Hillary. BAD<BR>
>EXAMPLE for Americans! Other countries, such as the Federal Republic of<BR>
>Germany, have a health care system which is a partnership between the<BR>
>government, the providers and the insurers. I have a nephew who will be 9 in<BR>
>January, and he was born in a German hospital (and for now he has dual<BR>
>citizenship), there were some complications in his delivery. He eventually<BR>
>came through OK, but at least his mother (my sister) didn't have to worry<BR>
>about the bills.<BR>
<BR>
  Someone failed their "read TML post" task check on this one :)<BR>
AFAIK, Mr. Seamans is a Yank, and was referring to the US system<BR>
in his paragraph excerpted above. In the Canadian system you can<BR>
still pay out serious bucks for non-insured services, extra or<BR>
non-conventional therapies, and many drugs, but the basic system<BR>
covers most of what you'll run into. Oh, and "serious bucks" in<BR>
this context likely isn't a fraction of what those in the US are<BR>
used to thinking of regarding uninsured medical costs...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:38:12 -0800<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <rosscoburn@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: SF Traveller<BR>
<BR>
on 12/19/99 8:27 AM, Traveller-digest at<BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok then a quick nose count then...<BR>
<BR>
> 1. How many of us are there now in the Bay Area?<BR>
<BR>
I am as of recently.  I didn't bring any FSY goodies with me though....<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> 2. Who's looking for a game?<BR>
<BR>
That would be me.<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> 3. Availability<BR>
<BR>
Pretty good once the holidays are done.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1533<BR>
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